Danielle Morrill

Absolutely, Landmark/Forum is a cult – a new age or large group awareness training cult. Don’t get talked into going back. My husband and I were in a Bible-based cult for years. I even wrote a book about our experience. Check out my website http://www.dallascult.com or Rick Ross’ website.

Take care,
Wendy J. Duncan
Author: I Can’t Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult

@Wendy, I guess you’ll be happy to hear that I didn’t end up going at all. That’s pretty crazy that you were in a cult, I skimmed your website briefly and I thought the definition of cult was apt and useful for me (since the word seems to be rather overused). I’m still thinking on this question: Where does one draw the line?

It seems like most religions were not mainstream at one point (even Christian religion was once a minority in comparison to pagan religions in Britannia). Given the fact that I am an atheist, I wonder if it really matters whether differentiate between religions and cults, or if I can lump it all together as being irrational and just be done with it. That seems to be a lazy way of thinking for me, but it seems like all of this is on one continuum of bad and worse…

With regards to your last point/question, I personally draw the line based on the core message of the organization. With pretty much all the established ‘religions’ today, the core motivation is (at least ostensibly) to get people to do good for their society and others.

With many cults (including Scientology and, it sounds like, Landmark), the core component of the teachings is that you personally can be/are better than you are or than others, and proceeds to ‘teach’ you how to achieve that.

At least, so it seems to me.

@Clint, I’m reflecting on what you’re saying but my thoughts are coming out in a jumble (this isn’t about agreeing or disagreeing, just understanding). I’ll list them out and then see where I’m at:

* it doesn’t seem bad to encourage people to be better than they currently are
* moral superiority certainly exists in modern religion, not just in cults
* telling people that they are “chosen ones”, whether in a cult or a religion, is a crock

I think my working definition of a cult is any group of people who follow a leader blindly, whether the leader is Jesus, Stalin, or Obama. The willingness to subordinate your own mind to the mind of the group and that group’s leader seems to be the core of all this. What do you think? Am I on the right track, or missing something?

I don’t believe that Landmark Education is a cult. I have gotten so much out of it. I don’t see how something that helps people improve their lives could be considered so negatively in some peoples eyes.

Most people walking into an LGAT group like Landmark have no idea of the level of psychological manipulation that LGAT environments can have. It’s like saying you think you can handle yourself in a street fight, then you find out your opponent is a tenth grade black belt who has been street fighting for 30 years. Unless you’ve done SERE training or are remarkably psychologically tough, most LGAT’s will get through to you on some level.

I’m lucky to have been to several and avoided getting entangled but I would never put myself or a loved one in that situation again. It’s not worth the risk to your personal life, and research shows that LGAT self-improvement is short-lived.

I highly recommend you avoid Landmark. As Wendy says above, check out rickross.com for info on LGAT groups.

I’ve done the Landmark Forum and here’s the real deal: The Landmark Forum makes a huge difference for people — that’s why they/we keep going back.

It’s hardly a cult. Cults don’t encourage people to tell the truth, keep their word, call their mother, balance their checkbooks, give up regrets and resentments and live life fully. Landmark Education is about nothing more or less than people being empowered to fulfill on what matters to them.

The garbage about it on the Internet mostly seems to come from one source that is run by an ex-con with no training in cults. I can’t figure it out.

I went to a landmark forum at 13.It was something my parents ‘encouraged’ me to attend. I was in a very low point in my life and needed a pick me up.

It helped. Though in saying that, I’m not sure if it was a placebo. I think the most beneficial thing was going to a place where there were more people who had problems, worse than mine in some cases. It made me realise, maybe I didn’t have it so bad and could handle things.
The things that were taught in the 3 day seminar (12 hours a day) I didn’t take in so much, and remember anybody who presented a different view being talked down, and subtly ridiculed.

I left the seminar knowing people who had problems, knowing I wasn’t alone in that.
My Dad continued to go, despite how much it was costing him, he took me along with him.
I went to a more adult class. This was very intense. People taking notes, going up to speak to everybody and admitting things they had kept deep down. I didn’t see anything wrong at the time. But realised it wasn’t something I was interested in doing.

Thus the Landmark Sales machine got into action. (Note I was only 13, had only just gotten over some serious insecurities). I got calls every night, literally. Trying to convince me to come back to the expensive night classes once a week. They were very persuasive and would not let me hang up…
Ironically, the confidence I gained at the first and only ‘forum’ i went to, I used to move on and not go back.

I realised that what I really needed was me, a belief in myself and not an environment of peer pressure security.

Right, time to wrap up this life story.. now at 24 and having graduated University and learnt so much more, I can look back at my experience with landmark and be thankful I didn’t take it on any further.

Is it a cult? – in a way. Yes. As above they wont let you go without a fight, imagine loosing all that money I could have given them! I felt I had gained enough, but they didn’t. It should be up to the person who’s going whether they want to or not. And I know of people who have continued with it and experienced abuse and humiliation for the ‘better of themselves.’ From what I saw, it was not helping in any way shape or form.

An organization that charges money to make you feel good? Sounds like big pharma.

I’ve been to one Landmark Forum, me and a good friend were paid to go by another, getting less and less, a friend, as it’s all she talks about and is starting to get that weird, glazed-over-in-the-eyes, Moonie or Jimmy Jones member look in their eye.

Any organization the professes there’s only one way, there way, and that you need to pay more money for the next hit, is in fact, not an organization with your best interests in mind. My friend who went with a much more open mind but left with a sour taste is Catholic and opined something very similar. As a Catholic you shouldn’t talk bad about the Pope or the religion but you can of course without retribution or being called “weak,” and as a Catholic you can listen to others with their issues against Catholicism, but there’s no harm no foul.

The creepy thing about Landmark is all their Koolaid drinkers are like zombies, you can’t talk bad about their cul..er, organization, without them flipping out. That they themselves can’t take criticism is the telling fact. Which brings me back to the unalienable truth… how someone reacts says more about THEM, than it does about the event or question. If the Landmark Forums were really not a cult, then their members wouldn’t be so rabid to defend it, or would simply say “okay, you’re entitled to your opinion,” or you’d see more middle ground or gray area, but you don’t. Buyer beware.

This looks cool so far, what’s up people?
If there are any real people here looking to network, leave me a post.
Oh, and yes I’m a real person LOL.

Peace,

Hi all. I recently took the Landmark Forum and for me, the results have been and continue to be great. A lot of what Landmark does for participants like myself is to steer us away from the blame game – blaming others for unhappiness in our lives and taking responsibility for our own life regardless of circumstance. Some of that can be profound – like shedding the anger of child abuse or a bad marriage. Of course, all this sounds like common sense – stuff that wouldn’t require you to spend $500 on a three day course to learn. But spend an average day listening to others and yourself – really listening – how much of that champions the relationships in our life and how much is critique or complaint. In the Forum, I’ve seen extraordinary things happen – fathers, mothers, daughters, sons, husbands, and wifes reconcile after years of disconnection and hurting one another. I got to tell my mother and my brother how much I love them and atone for things I had done earlier to cause us distance. Had I done The Forum earlier I could have included my father as well. Much of what Landmark shares is that being of service to others to how we find our own humanity and being. If others judge negatively, honestly there’s little I can do to change their opinion other than to express the truly positive affect it’s has for me. It is neither pseudo-religion nor kool-aid. Just a set of tools that allows many of us to stop living on the sidelines and create wonderful course adjustments in our all-too-short lives.

I to was very skeptical about the landmark education. I went to an intro at a friends house. At that time I had never heard of landmark. I found value in the intro and decided to sign up. I did not put any money down because I wanted to research it on the internet first. So I did so . That night I hopped on the old wwweb and googled landmard forum . what i got was a lot of good a lot of bad. more bad . and then more good .. I was over it .. I was also full of fear that I to would have to expose a vulnerable side of myself to a large group. ssshhh yeah right. I told my friend “Im okay I can do it on my own but thanks”. I later had a conversation with a family member, whom I had not seen in eight years, in which I saw a tremendous change in his whole presence. After some talk He mentioned he had done the landmark forum. It was so inspiring to me that I said to myself “I have nothing to lose’. If he got that out of this education than I have nothing to lose. I then committed to the forum. I got a lot of value after completing the forum and have seen tremendous results in my life from the education. I now see that all that is fear and skeptisism is a barrier. This fear limits my acces to new ideas and events that give me the opportunity to see a new way of living my life . This fear is generated from my past events that I compensated for in order to survive. Not live . But survive. I have gotten from the forum is that I have the tools and access to now live . fully self expressed , without fear, attachment. My past is my past and I am committed to Now living in a mind state of unlimited possibilities . Im glad I went and encourage others to look into the education and choose freely.. Peace .. One love.. R

[...] by just how much of my web traffic is driven to my original post from over a year ago, “Is Landmark Forum a Cult?” Since I continue to cross paths with Landmark influenced people in my life, I think it is [...]

I thought I would enter this blog and leave my 10 cents worth. I actually found this blog whilst looking for a Landmark Forum event in SW Florida where I live. Between 1994 and 1997 I attended the Landmark Forum, the advanced class, and half of 2 other classes I can’t remember the name of. I am from the UK where this kind self-improvement is looked at as BS most of the time, so think I went to the events with a pretty closed mind.

The Forum, a three day event, was grueling. You sit in a room with 200 to 300 other people and deconstruct your life. A lot of people get up on stage in a emotional attempt to find out what stops them from being the person they want to be. Often it’s hard to watch but something remarkable happens towards the end of the event. You start to realize how much alike people really are. We tend to confine ourselves to our peer groups, our beliefs, and our comfort zone. After the Landmark Forum the world looked different for me. I really wanted to connect with people in a way that I had never done before. I looked at EVERYONE wondering, what’s their story and want’s great about them?

My way of being was somewhat short lived as I drifted back to my old self often cynical and self absorbed. After a few months, I went to the advanced course which was good but didn’t have the same impact.

I would say that Landmark is not like a cult but results are going to depend on you. Some people get fanatical about the program and are almost scary to talk to. However, some amazingly interesting and accomplished people from practically every walk of life attend these seminars. I’ve made some great friends, none of whom are still involved in Landmark but all who got something out of it. $400 is really not a lot of money to spend for what I believe is definitely an something worth experiencing. Some people have gone on to do amazing things with their lives as a result of attending Landmark.

Finally it is by the far the best place you could ever go if you are single and want to meet someone and if you’ve been to the Forum before, it’s only $100 to reattend – that’s why i’m looking!!!

Hope this helps.

I actually took the course myself and I have to say the whole thing is a mishmash of Buddhism, regression therapy and common sense principles. Something you can learn outside with less mental stress outside and less peer pressure. Not really worth the rather costly fee to join . If you wish to learn something similar with a much more relaxed, open and laid back philosophy I suggest that you start by studying Buddhism instead.

Pardon me. Does someone realize how to find a smart Expert Avisor from bad and a true signal from fake? sorry for inconvinience

Hey Danielle! I was skeptical at first too and also did my reading up and was even more skeptical about The Landmark Forum! However, like you, I was invited by two different friends that it would be a helpful course to assist me with life changes I was going through and decided I would give them my trust and go for it.

In June 2010, I completed The Landmark Forum… and it’s transformed my LIFE! I totally understand about the “cultish” feeling that folks talk about, but those folks have likely never actually been through and/or applied the course content in their lives. If they did, they wouldn’t use these discriptors to describe the course.

So, beyond that, being SO impressed by The Landmark Forum, I immediately enrolled into the Advanced Course. This course was SOOOO intense and amazing. It takes the Forum to a WHOLE new level.

I’m currently in Boston with my sister (who lives in Maine). After hearing be talk about the changes it’s made in my life she decided to come down to Boston to attend the course herself. She’s having a blast! I was really kinda scared she wouldn’t like the course, but she’s SOO happy that she stood up in front of a room of 150ish people tonight to thank me for traveling all the way from Seattle and introducing this course to her life… everyone in the room was in tears by the time she was done.

To clarify another misunderstanding about the course study, it is NOT est. Est is the OLD program (granted it is the “origin” program). The est program had a strange reputation of not letting people go to the bathroom and all kinds of other weird manipulation…. The Landmark Forum, in current form, is nothing like that. The only resemblance is they both create life transformations.

Anyway, sorry this post is two years late, but hope you’d still consider the course. I have yet to meet anyone who completed the actual 3.5 day course who didn’t come out with new and powerful insights to their new life. I know that sounds weird…

Who do you know involved in Landmark? Maybe I know them! DM me on twitter to let me know!

So did you ever go?

It won’t be long before you decide to be “Authentic” with your boss and get fired or quit . . . . . .
- then you will be volunteering as non-paid staff for this cult and you life will be set on a downward spiral financially as well as every other aspect of your life.
WAKE THE F*$K UP you dip-stick !

Here’s a detailed account of exactly what happens in the landmark forum, that indulges in neither boosterism nor alarmism, that tells exactly what happens. It also addresses the whole ‘cult’ accusation.

http://thirtytwothousanddays.com/blog/2011/02/landmark-forum-cult-scam-or-path-to-enlightenment/

To clarify another misunderstanding about the course study, [Landmark] is NOT est.

Richard: That’s the current Landmark line on the subject and it is deeply misleading. The Landmark Forum is a kinder, gentler, shorter and somewhat modified version of The est Training. But if you’ve done both, as I have, it is pretty much like seeing the TV remake of an old movie. Not the same, true, but quite similar and with the same message.

Basically they toned down the boot camp aspects of est and made a few changes:

* They dropped the bathroom restriction. However, if you leave the room on your own, you void getting the promised benefits of the Forum.
* The trainer is now called the leader and behaves less like a drill instructor. The old est trainers would literally get right in your face and start shouting at you.
* The assistants aren’t quite so cold and robotic. (I’ve assisted at both.)
* The so-called “Fear Process” is now so mild you could practically sleep through it.
* The hours are much more reasonable and the leader follows the schedule much more closely. Back in the est days the sessions could go way past midnight.
* Some parts of the est Training (4.5 days) were dropped or moved to the Landmark Advanced Course.
* The concepts and jargon have evolved some since est.
* Materials similar to Scientology, Mind Dynamics and Silva Mind Control have been removed.
* Werner Erhard is almost never mentioned by name.

I’d be hard-pressed to say whether The Forum is better than The Training. It’s certainly less scary and less of a PITA. It’s less vulnerable to charges of cultism and threats of lawsuits. I’d also say it seems to have less impact on people — though the Forum can still deliver quite a punch as you testify. But back in the est days, people rolled out of The Training like early Christians on fire with redemption and a new gospel to transform the world. Est graduates were so enthusiastic that they could convince people to pay money to attend an introduction, i.e. sales pitch, to The Training.

Have fun and play safe!

Danielle commented:
the top results all refer to it as being very cultish, but my friend and
I have had conversations that lead me to believe it really has
generated positive value in her life.

Don’t most cult members feel this way, at least for a while?

This is not so much a reply as addendum for those considering the experience.  I took the Landmark Forum beginning and advanced, and the program is not run by a cult.  Cults have crazed ego-driven leaders and dogma.  Landmark does not.  Landmark has intense exercises, which if you are neurotic or naive, might be shocking or destabilizing.  People who have examined their lives and problems but feel stymied or unfulfilled can be helped by Landmark sessions.  The leaders I had were excellent.  They were one part zen master, one part entertainer, one part motivational guide and one part sharing human being.  The mix works.  Exhausting the defenses is a time-honored technique of therapists, spirit guides and friends!  If you want to keep your arsenal of ineffective behaviors in tact, don’t go to these classes.  Some exercises involve west coast Asian teachings.  The courses are a heady combination of eastern wisdom and western can do.  The Landmark philosophy involves change.  I can understand people dropping out, but I can’t understand the wrath.  I think much of that is fear-based.  Cults drive people to dependency.  Other than wanting you to take their courses and tell others to take them,  I’m pretty sure they don’t want you hanging around.  Some people like to facilitate.  I never did and no one from Landmark ever tried to coerce me or pressure me to continue the relationship.  Thus, no cult!  Good luck, seekers of better lives.  Christy

Landmark is definitely a cult that was created by a cheezy, twice divorced ex-used car salesman who changed his name from John Rosenberg to Werner Erhard. They use 3 specific high pressure pyscological sales techniques in their seminars: 1. Group Pressure 2. Mental Fatigue 3. Language Manipulation. The Landmark Forum (I attended in Feb 1991) is basically a 40 hour long sales pitch for the next course.

I went to the intro thing last night. I’ve never heard about it and my friend asked me to go. As she’s my friend and it seemed important to her, I thought that I could go and support her. While some of the things that they talk about are good and have been used in therapy, there’s a big problem with the over all program. Let me illustrate. I got up to do the demo and we covered some issues that I have been dealing with. People were amazed at how fast I arrived at my conclusions. They applauded, I felt embarrassed that I was telling this stuff in front of so many strangers. The problem was the reason I had “gotten” it so fast was because I had already been dealing with these same issues with a therapist. I didn’t learn anything new about myself. Unlike a good therapist that wants you to eventually be well enough to not need them anymore, the Landmark Forum just sells all these seminars and keeps you going. I felt really pressured to sign up after that. Why would I pay hundreds of dollars to learn things about myself that I actually already knew and was getting help for? My insurance is picking up most of the tab. Not to mention that I was getting to a place where I was starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel for my therapy. I’m now to go to one session after another, after another and pay a lot of my money towards it? That seemed counterproductive. There was something wrong about it, about what I was learning from that forum. Something that felt really off for me besides the money thing and the embarrassment to tell complete strangers about the pain that I experience in my life.

I did some research and found that the Landmark Forum has ties with Scientology. I have heard way too many horror stories about Scientology to be bought into it’s cousin, Landmark. So, I’ll happily pass on this, complete my therapy, and really get on with my life instead of pretending to while being tied down to going to seminars after seminars after seminars and paying through the nose in the process. No thanks.